Yet another Credenza topic

[muffinass]

LOL! My Victor 9 was the test subject for my abilities as well!

...

Again, thank you so much for the repair info (and the pictures!)!

Not to switch topics here - will create a new thread - but can you tell me exactly what brand of grease and lubricating oil I need to buy?
I'm weary of getting the wrong kind (or a similar one with different additives).

Is it safe to say that any grease/oil I buy for fixing the Credenza can be used for the VV-IX (and vice-versa)?

Cheers!

[1926CredenzaOwner]

I think lithium grease is the consensus. I've used all kinds of different greases while rebuilding motors and such, and haven't had a problem with any of them yet. If I'm not mistaken, Victor originally used what was basically petroleum jelly and graphite.

Some people say to use gear oil, some use Three-In-One oil, and there's been a few others mentioned on the forum that don't come to mind off the top of my head. Honestly, when it comes to the tone arm, I've even used Conn valve oil for trumpets.

[FloridaClay]

Not to switch topics here - will create a new thread - but can you tell me exactly what brand of grease and lubricating oil I need to buy? I'm weary of getting the wrong kind (or a similar one with different additives).

Is it safe to say that any grease/oil I buy for fixing the Credenza can be used for the VV-IX (and vice-versa)?

Cheers!

You'll likely get a variety of opinions on that. So far I've had good luck with white lithium grease and just a good quality machine oil like 3-in-1. And the same grease and oil should be OK for either machine.

Back in the day Victor used a mixture of Vaseline and graphite, but it turns to a tar-like substance over time.

Clay

[SquireWill]

Sorry to drill with posts, but I'd really appreciate an informed opinion on this Credenza.

I'm afraid of the mound of grease on the horn encasing being caused by a leaky spring barrel and of the pot-metal reproducer as too cracked/fissured to be disassembled.

Cheers in advance for the replies!

Those barrels aren't grease tight. It might have been overgreased at some point. More important on the reproducer is that the spider is not disconnected from the diaphragm. Just go for it. It's a good project.

[SquireWill]

Not to switch topics here - will create a new thread - but can you tell me exactly what brand of grease and lubricating oil I need to buy? I'm weary of getting the wrong kind (or a similar one with different additives).

Is it safe to say that any grease/oil I buy for fixing the Credenza can be used for the VV-IX (and vice-versa)?

Cheers!

You'll likely get a variety of opinions on that. So far I've had good luck with white lithium grease and just a good quality machine oil like 3-in-1. And the same grease and oil should be OK for either machine.

Back in the day Victor used a mixture of Vaseline and graphite, but it turns to a tar-like substance over time.

Clay

Speaking from an automotive background, wheel bearing grease. Gear oil or even a little standard motor oil would be ok.

[muffinass]

A little update: we picked up the Credenza and the cabinet is in better condition than I imagined. Sure there are lots of tiny scratches but they can be 'touched up' with a Restore-a-finish (and if not, no biggie, I prefer it to look slightly used).

The owners were very pleasant people - both live in Windsor and the history of the Credenza stayed within the area. It was purchased initially by a blackack dealer, whose wife had bequeathed it to her neighbour. This woman, in turn, being the mother of the owners we purchased it from.

Also, on the back of the platter, there were servicing dates from 1927 and 1929.



Now a quick point-form request for advice

- what finish is my credenza? is it mahogany or walnut? (my guess walnut)

- what can I use to clean the surface of the cabinet? currently it has some dirt and white marks on the lid from placemats that stuck to it

- the gold plating is dirty and definitely needs to be cleaned...is toothpaste really the way to go? (this also applies to the platter and auto-break?)

- when I lifted the motor-board out (we removed it for transport) I heard the horrible sound of a hundred needles fall inside the cabinet...is there any way to remove these? Will they affect the sound? (a bit silly to think so, but...)

- the reproducer has tiny cracks on the back, one, unfortunately, connecting with another tinny one on the front...who should I send it in to? Peter Wall or Walt Sommers? and can anyone tell me what I can do to remove it from the tone-arm? it didn't come off easily and I don't want to force it...are the screws on the flange keeping it tight on the crook?

- the dash-pots are shot...how can I repair/fix them?

...and the BIGGIE: now that I've gotten the hang of dismantling, cleaning and rebuilding a two-spring motor, should I go ahead and work on the 4-spring by myself? Is it more complicated and/or does it require a bit more 'calibrating'?
The other reasoning behind my jump on this, is the fact that the repairman I planned on sending it to - Don Woodrow, whose skills and talent I don't doubt and I'm sure James from CAPS can vouch for - doesn't clean the parts with paint thinner or kerosene. Instead he scrubs them with a wire-brush - which after cleaning out the IX motor, I think will not suffice, especially on a 4-spring that's been sitting idle for 50+ years. Am I right in thinking that they'll need a more thorough cleaning or should I trust the expertise that others have vouched for?

Thanks again for all the help and look forward to continuing another project with this!

...pictures to follow shortly...

[FloridaClay]

Having recently been down this road, here is my 2 cents.

Clay

Now a quick point-form request for advice

- what finish is my credenza? is it mahogany or walnut? (my guess walnut)

Yep.

- what can I use to clean the surface of the cabinet? currently it has some dirt and white marks on the lid from placemats that stuck to it

I'd use Kottton Klenser or GoJo (sans punice). Very easy to use and gives good results. You will find countless threads here recommending those products.

- the gold plating is dirty and definitely needs to be cleaned...is toothpaste really the way to go? (this also applies to the platter and auto-break?)

Try amonia. Easy and works well on gold. Wipe it on, wipe it off with a paper towel or soft cloth. (And will clear your sinuses for a year!) Gold is soft and if you start scrubbing with something you are likely to damage the plating, which is quite thin.

- when I lifted the motor-board out (we removed it for transport) I heard the horrible sound of a hundred needles fall inside the cabinet...is there any way to remove these? Will they affect the sound? (a bit silly to think so, but...)

The back panels come off easily so you can clean out around the inside.

- the reproducer has tiny cracks on the back, one, unfortunately, connecting with another tinny one on the front...who should I send it in to? Peter Wall or Walt Sommers? and can anyone tell me what I can do to remove it from the tone-arm? it didn't come off easily and I don't want to force it...are the screws on the flange keeping it tight on the crook?

As to who, yes. Gentley turn the reproducer counter clockwise until you feel it stop (this will be at a point with the needle more or less at a 180 degree angle to the turntable) and then pull it off.

- the dash-pots are shot...how can I repair/fix them?

I thought mine were also until I found a copy of the original manual that came with Credenzas. Put some machine oil (like 3-in-1) in the tops around where the rods run in. Presto!

You will need to remove the motor board or back panels to get to them.

...and the BIGGIE: now that I've gotten the hang of dismantling, cleaning and rebuilding a two-spring motor, should I go ahead and work on the 4-spring by myself? Is it more complicated and/or does it require a bit more 'calibrating'?
The other reasoning behind my jump on this, is the fact that the repairman I planned on sending it to - Don Woodrow, whose skills and talent I don't doubt and I'm sure James from CAPS can vouch for - doesn't clean the parts with paint thinner or kerosene. Instead he scrubs them with a wire-brush - which after cleaning out the IX motor, I think will not suffice, especially on a 4-spring that's been sitting idle for 50+ years. Am I right in thinking that they'll need a more thorough cleaning or should I trust the expertise that others have vouched for?

Your call of course, but personally I would leave it to someone who is experienced. There are several reasons--one being is that if someone botched something earlier in its life as a beginner you might not spot it. I ran into this with mine. Somebody before had done several hacks which George Vollema, who did the rebuilt for me, spotted and put right.

[estott]

Here's my additions to the above 2 cents.


To clean the cabinet rub it with Go-Jo hand cleaner, the plain kind WITHOUT pumice. Let it dry a couple days before you put any finish or polish on it. You'll find lots of tips on using Go-Jo on the forum.

You can also use Go-Jo on the gold plate- but go light on the cleaning. There's a thin lacquer coating over thin gold plate and you don't want to rub down to the brass.

The needles won't affect anything, but if you want to remove them get a magnet.

I sent my reproducer to Walt Sommers with excellent results, but it was a brass one and a reasonably simple repair. He'll probably have to see yours to determine if and how it can be repaired. If you need to get another one the later variety used on portable phonographs can give excellent sound.

You might be able to fix the dash pots- the usual problem is that the leather seals inside have dried out. Drip a little oil inside down the rod to soak the leather & move the rod in and out- usually this should restore the function. If not, then send them to George Vollema.

[FloridaClay]

Here is a link to a video I made after my Credenza was restored. Maybe of interest to you because Peter Wall had at this point worked on my rather badly cracked reproducer. I was amazed at how good it sounded after he finished. (The hissing is surface noise from wear on the record.) I had to use a soft needle to make the video because the response is so strong that a loud needle overwhelmed the microphone on the camera. Even with that it was easily loud enough to drown out all the ticking from my clock collection you will hear before the music starts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHx9aIhDj34&feature=plcp

Clay

[muffinass]

Clay and estott, thanks for the replies!

GoJo it is - don't have the time to wait for the KK to arrive as I need to get most of the cleaning done today. But why GoJo without pumice?

And...another silly question, but do I buy the Dark Walnut or regular Walnut Howard Restore-a-finish?

As for the reproducer, it won't budge. I should've been clearer - the flange seems to be stuck onto the end of the tone-arm. I have a similar problem on a cracked 5A reproducer from an HMV 102 that won't rotate off the tone-arm.

What can I do to loosen it? Do I use oil?

I'll take pictures later and post them - as well as ask Peter and Walt on their opinions.

And as far as servicing the motor myself, you're right, it's best I leave it to a professional (maybe just ask to have the pieces thoroughly cleaned).