Walnut L Door on Ebay

[Raphael]

Here are 3 images I have in my files. The top one was sold a few months ago, but I have the other 2 here in my warehouse. The center one was sold through Berliner in Canada. The bottom one may the the same as the one FloridaClay is showing.







Raphael

[gramophone78]

Here are 3 images I have in my files. The top one was sold a few months ago, but I have the other 2 here in my warehouse. The center one was sold through Berliner in Canada. The bottom one may the the same as the one FloridaClay is showing.







Raphael

Thanks Raphael, I have to say as a collector how surprised I am that many seem to not know these things about machines. Owning books and years of collecting I guess contribute to knowing certain things..????. Lets use the "Skinner" photo for example. The pitch control is in the back left (facing the machine) circled in red. Did anyone not notice the location of the one for sale currently??. It may be in the correct location. However, I would be looking over the serial number very closely to make sure it was correct. Now regarding the motor board and again using the "Skinner" example.....You can clearly see the blondish grain (I circled in red. No other wood is going to look like Circassian Walnut (exotic) regardless of how you stain or grain it. Woods that have even or plain grain...like Fir,Poplar,Spruce and Pine can be stained and grained to look like mahogany, cherry, etc.... The bottom line here is as I wrote. It's "buyer beware" and if you are going to pay the big $$$$. At least get what you are willing to pay for. Knowledge is king. Regarding why the motor board was changed. I would guess it was done at a time when you could not give the machine away. A non-collector would careless.

[Jerry B.]

What a great way to get a discussion going! I raced down to my basement with camera in hand only to discover it had a discharged battery. We'll have to wait for my photos. I think the mention of the Vic O is very valid. It shows what is possible with stain and a creative finish department and it showed what Victor was willing to do. If you consider a walnut, oak, or mahogany Victrola the only time you'd get 100% of one strain of wood came with an oak machine. That's because Victor used oak as its core wood. I broke apart a few junk Victrola cabinets and consistently found oak. If you buy a mahogany Victrola, you are also buying a lot of oak. You just don't see it.

What did Victor buy to make walnut Victrolas? Did they buy bulk walnut and process the raw material into select veneers and use the lesser cuts for motor boards, decks, and horns or did they purchase just the select veneers. That would really provide answers to the debate I've started.

Respectfully, Jerry Blais

[gramophone78]

Jerry, I disagree. The wood use to make the Vic.O case is not an exotic wood by any stretch of your imagination. As mentioned in my post above....it is not just staining.Your pics will show (if your machine is correct) what has already been seen in all these pics posted.
Please keep in mind, this thread is regarding the Victrola XVI that is for sale on Ebay. Not Victor's gift at making finishes.

I think it is important to add that the walnut with the real heavy exotic grain is veneer. The "solid" parts are still walnut. However this would have been cut in a different manner and therefore give a different grain effect. Much like quarter-cut oak,mahogany and even American walnut Victrola's. Victor always tried to use a woods best grain for their veneers.

The info provided here may help a potential buyer from making a costly mistake and nothing more. I hope the others on this thread feel the same.... .

[Jerry B.]

I don't disagree that the motor board on the ebay XVI was originally used in a mahogany Victrola. The discussion centers around the question of Victor using woods other than walnut to make external parts visible on any walnut Victrola. I think they did so that makes the repair for that particular Victrola a minor one rather than waiting for a Circassian motor board to surface. Jerry

[gramophone78]

I don't disagree that the motor board on the ebay XVI was originally used in a mahogany Victrola. The discussion centers around the question of Victor using woods other than walnut to make external parts visible on any walnut Victrola. I think they did so that makes the repair for that particular Victrola a minor one rather than waiting for a Circassian motor board to surface. Jerry

Jerry, I'm not sure "if" you read this thread from the start. No one is discussing what Victor used as a secondary wood when constructing these machines (other than yourself). The discussion on this thread is whether or not the motor board in this particular machine as been changed at some point.
I am of the opinion the motor board in this particular machine has been changed. I seems you are also of the same opinion.
To be frank.....who cares what the secondary wood is??.

I would like to add that I see the seller has now mentioned this in the ad. That is a very good thing to do. However, if I were selling this machine.....I would be wiping down that board and (if able) remove the table and take at least one good pic of how it looks and post it. This may in fact change my opinion as well as others. However, it may not. Given the one poor pic currently posted.....my opinion stands.

[ambrola]

I don't disagree that the motor board on the ebay XVI was originally used in a mahogany Victrola. The discussion centers around the question of Victor using woods other than walnut to make external parts visible on any walnut Victrola. I think they did so that makes the repair for that particular Victrola a minor one rather than waiting for a Circassian motor board to surface. Jerry

Jerry, I'm not sure "if" you read this thread from the start. No one is discussing what Victor used as a secondary wood when constructing these machines (other than yourself). The discussion on this thread is whether or not the motor board in this particular machine as been changed at some point.
I am of the opinion the motor board in this particular machine has been changed. I seems you are also of the same opinion.
To be frank.....who cares what the secondary wood is??.

I would like to add that I see the seller has now mentioned this in the ad. That is a very good thing to do. However, if I were selling this machine.....I would be wiping down that board and (if able) remove the table and take at least one good pic of how it looks and post it. This may in fact change my opinion as well as others. However, it may not. Given the one poor pic currently posted.....my opinion stands.

This is why I visit this site. All the knowledge you guys have, and I have been collecting, buying and selling for 20 years. I also don't care about secondary wood, as you don't see it anyway. As to the machine in question, I alerted the seller of the change, and to his honor, he added it. I personally would not want that machine unless it was a bargin price in the 1500.00 range. You have to take into the fact that the finish is dull, and not shinny like it should be. Wrong motor board = I don't want it! Still a nice machine, but some newbie is going to overpay.

[Hailey]

Heck...I guess I should simply just post my things on eBay! It sure seems to generate a great deal of interest from all you folks on this forum. I hope the damn thing brings 10K!! Those buyers are the only type of folks that make everything that each of us own worth a million bucks.
Personally, with the fees on eBay and PayPal, I think I would rather die with my stuff.

[phonogfp]

The way I've read Jerry's posts is that his point was that one needn't (shouldn't!) use Circassian Walnut to make a replacement motor board for the eBay example. I agree with him. To my eye, the wood used for the decks and motor boards for Circassian Victrolas resembles birch. Therefore, with the mahogany motor board to use as a pattern, and some birch (or a other appropriate wood) to use for the replacement motor board, a competent woodworker/cabinet maker could duplicate the motor board from the proper wood. The eBay Victrola could be made historically accurate with minimal trouble.

Attached below are photos from Circassian Walnut Victrola No.76975E. I have owned this machine for 46 years (it was the first antique phonograph I ever bought) and I guarantee that it is undiddled with. As you can see, like the photos posted earlier in this thread, the motor board is not made of Circassian Walnut, but a plain grained hardwood stained to harmonize with the lighter portions of Circassian's grain pattern.

So Jerry's point seems to me a valid one: that the eBay example could be properly restored without using Circassian Walnut.

George P.

[Jerry B.]

It's tough to tell what type of woof from photos but please give your opinions. Here are some photos: