C19 record repeating

[fran604g]

That is cool! Do you have a scan of it?

No. I hope to locate an actual bar so I can take detailed measurements. The gauge and bar are very precise instruments.

Beat,
Fran

[fran604g]

I should add that I tried to scan the gauge, but it was very blurry and the photo actually wound up being better.

I transcribed the print because the original has faded a little, and this is an improvement.

A flat scan of the gauge could theoretically be imprecise, because the "nose" is offset by 2 formed bends to accurately contact the center of the outside radius of the horn lift shaft.

I'm thinking of "Re-Creating" (pun intended) both the gauge and the bar in the future.

Fran

[barnettrp21122]

A few of us had a long discussion about horn alignment a few weeks ago, here is the link to it:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=22293

Indeed, if the horn is bent too far forward (down) then the stylus can track ahead faster than the gearing will drive the mechanism, and may come in contact with the left side of the limit loop. Alternately, if the horn is too far rearward (up), the pin may contact the right side of the loop.

Here's an image that barnettrp21122 posted in another thread discussing the horn alignment:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 227#p75227

Very instructional stuff!

I recently acquired an "Edison Horn Gauge" that would have been used with a "Horn Aligning Bar" to accurately align and calibrate the horn/reproducer to it's correct height and travel specifications.

This is a photo of my "Horn Alignment Gauge". (I transcribed and reapplied the original text to the image (for clarity purposes), and added the terms "Spindle Hole" and "Nose". Additionally, I highlighted the two horn size labeling "250" & "150" so that they can be seen easily.

I haven't found a "Horn Aligning Bar" yet, but I'm looking. I'd love to reverse engineer and make one, if anyone here has one I can use to accurately measure...

Best,
Fran

Thanks, Fran, for finding this. I knew I had read about adjusting limit pin travel here on the forum; I had forgotten that it was I who had posted it!

See you at Wayne this month?
Bob

[fran604g]

A few of us had a long discussion about horn alignment a few weeks ago, here is the link to it:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=22293

Indeed, if the horn is bent too far forward (down) then the stylus can track ahead faster than the gearing will drive the mechanism, and may come in contact with the left side of the limit loop. Alternately, if the horn is too far rearward (up), the pin may contact the right side of the loop.

Here's an image that barnettrp21122 posted in another thread discussing the horn alignment:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 227#p75227

Very instructional stuff!

I recently acquired an "Edison Horn Gauge" that would have been used with a "Horn Aligning Bar" to accurately align and calibrate the horn/reproducer to it's correct height and travel specifications.

This is a photo of my "Horn Alignment Gauge". (I transcribed and reapplied the original text to the image (for clarity purposes), and added the terms "Spindle Hole" and "Nose". Additionally, I highlighted the two horn size labeling "250" & "150" so that they can be seen easily.

I haven't found a "Horn Aligning Bar" yet, but I'm looking. I'd love to reverse engineer and make one, if anyone here has one I can use to accurately measure...

Best,
Fran

Thanks, Fran, for finding this. I knew I had read about adjusting limit pin travel here on the forum; I had forgotten that it was I who had posted it!

See you at Wayne this month?
Bob

Hi Bob,

I haven't made any plans for the fall show, likely I'll have to wait until spring.

If I can make it happen, I'll be there!

Fran

[BwanaJoe]

Well unfortunately there wasnt anything other than be careful when bending the horn backwards! So I've blocked the horn between it and the motor board to see if a couple of days of pressure will do the job for me. If that doesn't work I'll try carefully bending it back a few times. Now the question is, where on the horn do I apply the bending presssue?

[barnettrp21122]

The repair manual says to bend it at "H." However, I think it's a misprint. My guess is they meant "8,"
which is shown in the picture below.
That's where I bent mine. I doubt that blocking your horn alone will do much. Good luck!
Bob

[fran604g]

Joe, I posted a few minutes ago, but thought better of how I worded my point, so I'll have a try again.

In the above image posted by Bob, "H" is illustrated pointing to the horn at a relatively "strong" place. You place your right hand against this place, and PUSH rearward or PULL forward to correct the limit loop travel as indicated by the instructions.

FIRST, however, I would turn the speed control all the way to the right, OR let the machine unwind all the way down, remove the reproducer and turntable then measure from the top of the motorplate UP to the horn opening (where the reproducer goes) so that I can check to see how much I am bending the horn AS I GO.

This way, if things don't go satisfactorily, you can always reverse what you've done.

I hope I haven't mucked this up too much for you.

Fran

[fran604g]

Joe, have you read through the "New Edison Disc Motor" manual that's posted here?

The Link: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 2910#p2910

Scroll down through the post until you come to the following part, and it explains exactly what should be done to correct your problem.

REPRODUCED FROM THE ABOVE LINK:

REPEATING AND ITS REMEDY

(1) When lowering the reproducer, examine the feed rack (E), Figure (1). The teeth of rack (E) should mesh fully with the driving worm (5), Figure (2) before the diamond touches the Re-Creation. This adjustment is correct if there is not more than ¼ of an inch clearance between the worm and the rack (E) when the reproducer is raised to full height out of playing position. Adjustment of the rack is provided for if necessary by the upright stud enclosed in the spiral spring. This stud is held by a set screw located on the right side just back of screw (1), Figure (1).

(2) See that the bearings at the ends of tile shaft of the worm (5), Figure (2) have not become loosened, and that the shaft has not too much play endwise. 1/64 of an inch end play is plenty.[/color]

(3) If the limit pin on the front of reproducer weight (see sketch) page 2 touches the loop surrounding it, the diamond will skip a line or two on the Re-Creation, which will result in the repeating of some of the music. The reproducer must be lowered upon the Re-Creation so that the diamond begins at once upon the first music lines. Don’t start the diamond upon the smooth outer margin of the Re-Creation where it may float about, as this would carry the limit pin to one side against the loop.

(4) If the limit pin floats in the loop without touching it and repeating still occurs, it indicates that the swivel joint at the rear of the reproducer floating weight has become stiffened with rust or grit. Apply a drop of oil to the seams of the joint, also upon the head of the screw in the joint and work the weight from side to side to allow the oil to enter.

(5) The speed of the Limit Pin (see sketch, page 2) across the Re-Creation does not change, since the diamond fits into the groove and follows the Re-Creation. The speed of the loop which surrounds the pin, however, does sometimes change. The loop will travel faster across the Re-Creation if the distance “F” is made longer. And vice-versa, the loop will move across the Re-Creation more slowly if the distance “F” is made shorter.

Therefore, if when you start playing a Re-Creation the Limit Pin floats in the middle of the loop and you find that before the Re-Creation is finished the pin rubs against the loop on your left hand side as you face the instrument, remove the reproducer and push or bend the horn at H slightly toward the rear of the instrument. This will increase the distance (F) and make the loop keep ahead of the Limit Pin.

If the loop moves too fast so that the pin touches the right side of the loop, bend the horn slightly forward. The horn is springy and may require several trials before becoming set.

Be very careful not to bend too far in either direction. Overbending of the horn may loosen joints and result in defective reproduction.

I'm sorry if this is redundant, but I want to make sure anyone reading this understands the procedure, and any risks associated with bending the horn.

Good luck,
Fran

[BwanaJoe]

Joe, I posted a few minutes ago, but thought better of how I worded my point, so I'll have a try again.

In the above image posted by Bob, "H" is illustrated pointing to the horn at a relatively "strong" place. You place your right hand against this place, and PUSH rearward or PULL forward to correct the limit loop travel as indicated by the instructions.

FIRST, however, I would turn the speed control all the way to the right, OR let the machine unwind all the way down, remove the reproducer and turntable then measure from the top of the motorplate UP to the horn opening (where the reproducer goes) so that I can check to see how much I am bending the horn AS I GO.

This way, if things don't go satisfactorily, you can always reverse what you've done.

I hope I haven't mucked this up too much for you.

Fran

Good point, I hadn't thought about measuring it. Duh.

Fran, yep I've read it, thanks. That is what clued me in that was what could be causing the problem. But the bend the horn thing is kinda vauge on specifics. I wish I had one of those horn to stylus templates to go off of!

[BwanaJoe]

The repair manual says to bend it at "H." However, I think it's a misprint. My guess is they meant "8,"
which is shown in the picture below.
That's where I bent mine. I doubt that blocking your horn alone will do much. Good luck!
Bob

Edison motor parts photo.jpg

Thanks! I will give that a try!