do 4 minute recorders exist

[estott]

thanks for the tip but a dictaphone could never go into my bedroom (too big and ugly) and i want to do 4 minute and 2 minute recordings so i can play them on any normal phonograph and if i want to, experiment with making molds to produce recorded and blank cylinders in quantity for myself and just for fun!
thanks anyways!
Alex

Regarding your idea of molding your own cylinders- DON'T. Shawn Bori has worked for years to reproduce the process and the material, and it has cost him an endless amount of effort- and money. Once you get a machine with a good shaver and a recorder that works just buy some cylinders from him- you will save yourself some grief. For example- were you planning to make your cylinders out of candle wax? You won't be able to get a good recording and chances are you will ruin your stylus trying to play one back. Stick to getting a good machine and good records first.

[phonojim]

Shawn Bori has worked for years to reproduce the process and the material, and it has cost him an endless amount of effort- and money.

Not to mention scars from burns.

Jim

[Uncle Vanya]

thanks for the tip but a dictaphone could never go into my bedroom (too big and ugly) and i want to do 4 minute and 2 minute recordings so i can play them on any normal phonograph and if i want to, experiment with making molds to produce recorded and blank cylinders in quantity for myself and just for fun!
thanks anyways!
Alex

Regarding your idea of molding your own cylinders- DON'T. Shawn Bori has worked for years to reproduce the process and the material, and it has cost him an endless amount of effort- and money. Once you get a machine with a good shaver and a recorder that works just buy some cylinders from him- you will save yourself some grief. For example- were you planning to make your cylinders out of candle wax? You won't be able to get a good recording and chances are you will ruin your stylus trying to play one back. Stick to getting a good machine and good records first.

kirtley, one of the principal problems which had to be solved for the successful production of moulded phonograph cylinders was the groove shape. The wax of which a cylinder is moulded must shrink upon cooling just enough to allow it to be released form the mould. The introduciton of a bell-shaped cutting sapphire allowed for the production of a shallower groove which would more easily release form the mould. Of cou-se a cylinder does not shrink only in diameter. The master for a moulded cylinder needs to be cut with a special pitch, generally 98 TPI for two minute records and somewhere around 194-196 tpi for four-minute records, so that the pitch will be the standard 100TPI or 200TPI after the moulded cylinder shrinks and is removed from the mould. f this is not done, the record will skip when played. Henry Seymour goes into this in some considerable detail in the chapters describing the commercial production of cylinder records in his magnum opus "The Reproduction of Sound", which book is a good jumping-off point for any would-be recordist.

[kirtley2012]

thanks for the tip but a dictaphone could never go into my bedroom (too big and ugly) and i want to do 4 minute and 2 minute recordings so i can play them on any normal phonograph and if i want to, experiment with making molds to produce recorded and blank cylinders in quantity for myself and just for fun!
thanks anyways!
Alex

Regarding your idea of molding your own cylinders- DON'T. Shawn Bori has worked for years to reproduce the process and the material, and it has cost him an endless amount of effort- and money. Once you get a machine with a good shaver and a recorder that works just buy some cylinders from him- you will save yourself some grief. For example- were you planning to make your cylinders out of candle wax? You won't be able to get a good recording and chances are you will ruin your stylus trying to play one back. Stick to getting a good machine and good records first.

i am not taking buisness away from shawn borri, these will be for personal use and although i do know the recepie for brown wax cylinders i could not make them myself, what i would do is buy brown wax cylinders, record them then pour in something to make the mold or use another method then melt down broken black wax cylinders and use them for making new cylinders

i know shawn borri has worked for years developing his method so what is wrong with me spending years developing mine

[edisonphonoworks]

Most people just do not know how to use Ediphones, but when they are working like new, they actually sound very clear and loud. I have a model D 1936 Pro-technic, the one that kind of has the flared legs like the 250 DD, the one you see on most Ediphone boxes. The recorder has all the elements of a studio recorder, soft gaskets,, advance ball, and extreme sensitivity, you can whisper and record on it, and if you set it up with the right horn, it actually can make records that sound just like a Diamond disc without the surface noise!!! My hat is off to the ugly Ediphone, I should be saying "Say It to the Ediphone!"

[Stephen_Madara]

thanks for the tip but a dictaphone could never go into my bedroom (too big and ugly) and i want to do 4 minute and 2 minute recordings so i can play them on any normal phonograph and if i want to, experiment with making molds to produce recorded and blank cylinders in quantity for myself and just for fun!
thanks anyways!
Alex

Regarding your idea of molding your own cylinders- DON'T. Shawn Bori has worked for years to reproduce the process and the material, and it has cost him an endless amount of effort- and money. Once you get a machine with a good shaver and a recorder that works just buy some cylinders from him- you will save yourself some grief. For example- were you planning to make your cylinders out of candle wax? You won't be able to get a good recording and chances are you will ruin your stylus trying to play one back. Stick to getting a good machine and good records first.

i am not taking buisness away from shawn borri, these will be for personal use and although i do know the recepie for brown wax cylinders i could not make them myself, what i would do is buy brown wax cylinders, record them then pour in something to make the mold or use another method then melt down broken black wax cylinders and use them for making new cylinders

i know shawn borri has worked for years developing his method so what is wrong with me spending years developing mine

I believe you might do well to contact Paul Morris in England to purchase blanks from him. I know he has an excellent reputation for delivering items ordered.

[Uncle Vanya]

thanks for the tip but a dictaphone could never go into my bedroom (too big and ugly) and i want to do 4 minute and 2 minute recordings so i can play them on any normal phonograph and if i want to, experiment with making molds to produce recorded and blank cylinders in quantity for myself and just for fun!
thanks anyways!
Alex

Regarding your idea of molding your own cylinders- DON'T. Shawn Bori has worked for years to reproduce the process and the material, and it has cost him an endless amount of effort- and money. Once you get a machine with a good shaver and a recorder that works just buy some cylinders from him- you will save yourself some grief. For example- were you planning to make your cylinders out of candle wax? You won't be able to get a good recording and chances are you will ruin your stylus trying to play one back. Stick to getting a good machine and good records first.

i am not taking buisness away from shawn borri, these will be for personal use and although i do know the recepie for brown wax cylinders i could not make them myself, what i would do is buy brown wax cylinders, record them then pour in something to make the mold or use another method then melt down broken black wax cylinders and use them for making new cylinders

i know shawn borri has worked for years developing his method so what is wrong with me spending years developing mine

Now, Kirtley, I was trying to explain the pitfalls of what you wish to attempt. The principal problem that you face is mechanical. I was assuming that you would eventually figure out a satisfactory composition for the record. You could if you wished even use salvaged black wax from broken or damaged cylinders, but that would still leave you with the problem of records which will not track, or will not release form the mold, due to groove shape.

Many years ago, when I was experimenting with this process, I developed a pretty fair indestructible record, made of styrene tubing, steam molded. The styrene shrank sufficiently so that it could USUALLY be removed form the mold without damage, despite the relatively deep grooves made by my cutter, which used a standard Edison sapphire, but the records would nonetheless not track, for with the coefficient of shrinkage of my material a master record recorded at 100 threads per inch produced a record cut at 105 or 106 grooves per inch, one which would not track properly with a standard reproducer. Now, had I continued to pursue this line of work, I should have been able to get a new feed-screw cut for the Triumph that I was at the time using as a recording lathe, but even in the early 1980's, in the machine-tool-rich city of Cleveland, Ohio, which was yet at the time home to a massive though dying machine tool industry, it was going to cost more than seven hundred dollars for a properly cut feed-screw and its associated half-nut. I cannot imagine what the cost would be today! With laser, plasma, and water-jet machining techniques it may be no more expensive, but this expense must be considered.

Read Henry Seymour's excellent book before you start. It covers in considerable detail most aspects of the production of cylinder and disc records, and was written by an acknowledged expert in the field. Why attempt to re-invent the wheel, when you can instead build on the shoulders of a giant?